Milk Crates and Turntables. A Music Discussion Podcast
Milk Crates and Turntables is a Music Discussion Podcast. Each week Scott chooses a different music topic and discuss and debate the good, the bad and the ugly side of that particular topic. Maybe you'll agree or maybe you'll disagree. Listen in and find out.
Milk Crates and Turntables. A Music Discussion Podcast
Ep. 165 - Band Member Rivalries, Harmony, Discord, and the Stories Between
Ever wonder how the legendary Wu-Tang Clan managed to capture the hearts of fans across genres? Join us as we pay homage to their universal allure and navigate through some of the most notorious band rivalries in music history. In a refreshing new format, complete with share screen features, we touch on everything from personal updates, like welcoming Amanda back from college, to a small tech hiccup that delayed our last episode. We also take a walk down memory lane, revisiting the magnetic pull of the 1981 classic "Lonely is the Night" by Billy Squier, and engage you with a trivia challenge that promises fun prizes!
Nostalgia takes center stage as we reminisce about the era of cassette players and the love-hate relationship we all had with them. We'll chat about the thrill of early car stereos and share a laugh over a Depeche Mode concert memory from back in the day. This episode is a celebration of music's evolution, recognizing both the technological leaps and the lasting impact of artists like Billy Squier, whose catchy tunes have stood the test of time. We also dive into the complexities of music ownership and artist royalties in the streaming world—how much has changed and what might be lost along the way.
Feuds and friendships, creative clashes and collaborations—music history is rife with the kind of drama that shapes legendary bands. From the tumultuous dynamics within Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac to the commercial versus creative tensions of the Beach Boys, the stories are as intriguing as the music itself. Hear how personal conflicts and internal strife led to some of the most iconic albums of their time, and how bands like Guns N' Roses navigated the rocky road to fame. This episode is a deep dive into the human stories behind the music that defined generations.
That nigga want. Yeah. Word up look out for the cops. Cash food. Word up Two for fives. Over here, baby. Word up two for fives. Niggas got garbage down. Word up Cash food. Everything around me, cream get. Yeah, check this, old fly shit out.
Speaker 2:Word up Cash food, everything around me, cream get the money Dollar dollar bills y'all.
Speaker 1:I grew up on the crime side, the New York time side. Staying alive was no job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see the hands.
Speaker 1:Moms bounced on old men. So then we moved to Shaolin land. A young dude, you're rocking the gold suit. Low goose, only way I begin to GO. It's a Wu-Tang Christmas, yeah, should I do the whole show like this? Yeah.
Speaker 3:This is the new Milk Crates and turntables. I just pump anything. I don't do intros anymore, I jump right in. Got an interesting show tonight, changing things up, doing things a little different. I'm going to use a share screen, which I never did before. We're going to talk about a song and we're going to read an article 10 bands that hated each other the most. And I know some of you don't like this Wu-Tang stuff, you don't like this rap stuff. That's all right, it's all music. It's Wu-Tang, though. Come on, come on, come on. Even if you don't like hip hop, you got to like.
Speaker 2:Wu-Tang Clan. If you don't know them, look them up.
Speaker 3:Patty, welcome to the show and also welcome to the podcast. You know the name, I'm not going to say it. It's streaming live right now over a lot of platforms, but it's all about the podcast. You know no more intro. So I can't say thank you for that wonderful introduction, amanda. But I will say young Amanda is coming home from college for the holidays this weekend, so it's going to be good, it'll be good this weekend. So it's going to be good, it'll be good. And yeah, I think tonight I'm going to break out a song from the 80s.
Speaker 3:So if you're not, really if you haven't followed for a little while, you know what? I didn't even upload last week's episode, like I didn't. I don't know how I forgot to do that. So I have last week's episode just sitting. I'm going to dump them both together. I don't know how I forgot to do that, so I have last week's episode just sitting. I'm going to dump them both together, I don't care. I mean 165, 66. I don't know what it is. Now. You know, I can kind of slack off a little bit. I think I don't know what do you think? Yeah, we're going to be talking music, a particular song. Let's see, like I started this last episode that you haven't heard yet. If you're in the podcast world, I don't know which one you're going to hear first, but yeah.
Speaker 3:So let me, uh, let me get right into it. Let's drop that Wu-Tang, Wu-Tang, forever, baby. Let me go into my. I like my chill hop music, my background music, and I can turn that down a little. Yeah, I like having a little background music.
Speaker 3:You know, it's weird when you do a podcast by yourself and there's no one to bounce anything off of and there's no feedback and you just kind of hear that dead air and I don't particularly like it. So let me bring out this song and I'm going to try to stop saying I listen to myself sometimes and it drives me crazy, but I'm in the moment, we'll see. You know when I'm talking. So, yeah, let's get into the first song that we're talking about, and this is an eighties. I'd say it's an eighties classic. This is an 80s. I'd say it's an 80s classic. I'd say it's an 80s classic. I'm going to give you let me pull it up first. Let's see over here. There we go. Not that one, nope, it's always funny that you hear, you see these songs that have the same name but by different artists, and you're like, eh, some make it, some don't. This one. There's a song by Air Supply, and then there's this song. Let's see, there we go. Let's see there we go. Let's see, let's get right into it. If that's not one of the Hi Allison, welcome to the show. Let me get you guys up on the screen first.
Speaker 3:I have it a little bit April, all about public speaking. I think I pretty much have public speaking down. It's just when you don't really plan. You don't really plan and you just kind of jump into the podcast because you're comfortable like that, and it's not such a formal setting where I have to really pay attention to my enunciations and pronunciations and dramatic pauses and I'm just talking to you guys. Richie Farino, my boy, my man. Nice picture of the bald eagle buddy.
Speaker 3:Bobby G. Bobby G A rare Thursday night appearance. Rare Thursday night appearance. Bobby G I don't think Bobby G is going to when I used to do Coffee with the King and for you people that don't know that, a whole nother thing. You can see it on youtube. There's a king of facebook channel on youtube. There's a whole shitload of videos of me just being an idiot, um, but bobby g was there every sunday morning, coffee with the king, uh.
Speaker 3:So see, I just said it. I said ah, I'm gonna try to try to catch myself. Let's get 10 facts. 10 facts about the song Lonely is the Night for the podcast listeners. I'm just going to do this with the people that are watching on the live stream. I have a. Let's do this. David O'Connell, my man, thank you, thank you, all right, I'm going to put this out there and I don't know how this is going to work because it's like a 12 second delay on the live stream sometimes.
Speaker 3:But I'm going to ask a question, and the first one that pops up with the correct year We'll get it. I have all these leftover King of Facebook coffee mugs and koozies. You'll get one for Christmas. What year did Lonely is the Night by Billy Squire come out? What year did it come out? First one to give me the right answer gets a King of Facebook coffee mug and a koozie. They're really flimsy koozies. They're not elaborate or anything, but they're cool. Theysy koozies. They're not elaborate or anything, but they're cool, they're cool. So what year did lonely is the night come out? And again, that is the, the classic intro. We'll blast that again. Stop the presses.
Speaker 3:Mark talent jumps right in 1981, sparking mocking uncle tal gretzky bono hall of fame. No well, my mocking talent got it first he's getting that king of facebook mug. Funny thing is I was sending him one anyways. So how's this? I'm going to make an exception here. I was going to send Mark Talent one anyways, because we had a talk recently we always talk but Richie Farino came in with 1981. So I'm going to send one to Richie too. Richie, you got to message me your address, so you'll get a King of Facebook. Both of you will get King of Facebook coffee mugs, which are now retro. They're retro coffee mugs and I'll send them off to you before Christmas. You should get them for Christmas, but with that I expect a picture of you and the mug next to the Christmas tree. So there's the stipulation.
Speaker 3:So Lonely is the Night came out in 1981. Do you know? Let's see if anyone knows the name of the album. What's the name of the album that Lonely Is the Night came out on? It was a big album for him. It really is what broke him and put him on the charts. That's kind of a tough one, because I don't know how many people I never owned a Billy Squire album personally because they played the song on the radio so much. It was. Just, you know, love the song, so I didn't really have to buy the album. I was kind of a Billy Squire fan, I think, just like everybody else. I wasn't a super fan, but the name of the album was Don't Say no. It was commercial success reaching multi-platinum status. Like I said, that was the album. That was the song that kind of put him on the radar. Let's see. Lonely is the Night Okay. Another question let's see. Lonely is the night Okay.
Speaker 3:Another question what number did it peak at on the charts? Does anybody take a guess? Allison says you know what Allison Lundy says. You know I can't answer questions from the past. Yeah, I know, because the last week's episode with the drug era, whatever we got into last week.
Speaker 3:But where did it shot? Where did it shot? And I'll give you was it in the top 10? Was it from 11 to 20, 21 to 30, or 31 to 40? It's in the top 40. Richie Freeno says 14. No, april says three. Nope, I'll take a couple more answers. It's either 1 to 10, 11 to 20, 21 to 30, 31 to 40 in the top 40.
Speaker 3:Where did Lonely is the Night chart back in 1981? And well, I got three and 14, so I'm going to answer it anyways. Charted at number 30, right? So if you were around back then'd think that it was a charted higher than that, but charted at number 30. Let's see what else do they have here? I would, I know I thought it would be top 10. Also, if you had asked me, I would have said it was a top 10 song. But you know what? The music video. The music video gave it a bigger push than we thought on the radio, because back in 81, 82 I think, we were watching mtv more than we were listening to top 40 radio maybe, and it was in constant rotation on MTV. So maybe that's why we have this. It's not a Mandela effect, it's just a misconception. We'll call it a misconception. Let me see, I just got a phone call. All right, I'll call that later. So I think, yeah, because of mtv, we thought it was it charted higher.
Speaker 3:You know, a song's been covered by a few artists and I went and listened to them and no one does a different version of it. Nobody, everybody does the same version. So sometimes you hear artists cover other artists' songs and they add their twist to it and you know, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. But the artist that I heard I found it's the same version Almost sounds just like it. So my question is why bother? Why bother version almost sounds just like it. So my question is why bother? Why bother? Lonely in the night remains a classic rock staple and is all, it's all. It's one of those constant plays on classic rock radio. And uh, yeah, that's some facts on that song. So let's get back to it. Let's get back to it. Let's get back to that. That again, that hook at the beginning.
Speaker 3:That's one of the probably, if you were to say, if you were to say so, the 80s there was a lot of music, a lot of music in the 80s. Of course it's a decade of music, would you put. Would you put Lonely is the Night in the top 100 songs of the 80s? 100 songs sounds like a lot, but you got to think there was a thousand songs at least that came out in that decade. Right, you figure out more than that, I mean. So would you put Lonely is the Night in the top 100 songs of the 1980s? I don't, no. Richie Farino says no. April says thankfully, don't play Rock Me Tonight, rock Me Tonight, yeah. Says thankful they don't play rock me, rock me tonight, yeah, that's uh, oh yeah, that that that song is. Uh, it's not one of his, um, not one of his. It was a hit. It was a hit. It charted right. I gotta do this if that's not 80s, that's 80s right I mean, it's not a bad song.
Speaker 2:It's catchy, it's 80s.
Speaker 3:Yeah Right, I think Billy had a formula. I think he had a formula, I think he had a formula. Really good intros, really good intros. Let's get back to this song. That album is 33 years old. That song is 33 years old. That song is 33 years old yeah, billy you know a lot of people.
Speaker 3:there was this thing on the internet for a while, like whatever happened to Billy Squire? What happened to Billy Squire? Like nothing happened to Billy Squire. Billy Squire has been around, like he didn't just fall off the map. He didn't just all of a sudden disappear. He was around, whether he was producing or he was always. He never left. Really, really mark towns is the drums. Yeah, it's a great it's a great song.
Speaker 2:It's a rock song, it's definitely rock and roll.
Speaker 3:The Richie Farino says he saw Billy Squire with REO, speedwagon and Styx. Not a concert I went to. That was not my. I was not a Styx fan Fuck Styx. You know what Styx I like.
Speaker 3:So here we go. This is 43 years old. Yeah, this song's 43 years old. Yeah, jesus. So it's heavy. Right, let me see something. I'm going to look something up right now. Curious, let me see. All right, let's see.
Speaker 3:You know who produced this? I thought the producer. That's why I wanted to look it up. The producer of this song is the one and only Jim Steinman. Jim Steinman produced this song. That's why it's so good. Jim Steinman basically made Meatloaf Meatloaf, so that's why it's got big sound. Yeah, big sound. So it was produced by Jim Steinman. Came out in 1981.
Speaker 3:What's the run time on this song? You know what? It's? Almost so. For Top 40 Radio, the runtime on this is just over four minutes. It was a great party song. I'll tell you that I I can remember sometimes. I know this was a great party song. You know. I would say that it was a great, a great song to have on in your car when you're driving around with your friends, with a cooler, a beer in the backseat. You know not that I'm condoning that action, just saying Not that I'm condoning that, not that we ever did that, but we did. And you know you just crank that up, so that's the song of the night. But you know what? April said something. April said that the same drum kick is the stroke. So let's get a Billy Squire thing tonight. So let's see. Let's see if that has the same. There we go.
Speaker 3:He has a formula so billy squire produced this song himself, but there's definitely. It's formulaic in the sense of the drum beat. You're right in the sense, april, that there is a similarity in there In the guitar drops. It's again, it's formulaic, but it worked. You know Rick Astley was formulaic in his songs. You know his two or three hits, whatever he had, sounded the same. You can say the same for Al Stewart. Al Stewart is year of the cat. In time Passengers are the same fucking song. It's the same formula.
Speaker 3:Al Stewart was brilliant. He had Year of the Cat and it was an original song. No one heard anything like it before and it was a great story and he had a great layout for the song and then he had nothing after that. And then he decides you know what I got to get back to that? I got to get back to that. So he comes up with time passages. Besides, you know what I got to get back to that? I got to get back to that. So he comes up with time passages. So if you listen to those two songs back to back, it's almost the same formula, but no one really got. I realized that when I was like I don't know, three years ago. I go, wait a minute. This motherfucker was brilliant. He kind of slid it in there and it worked. He got two huge hits out of those songs and he's still making money off those songs.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, so billy squire he, he produced this song himself. So, yeah, that's some Billy Squire for the night. Let's get the. How many hits did he really have? How many hits did he really have? There is the. Alright, I'm going to go to Billy Squire's greatest hits. Yeah, this one, all right, I'm going to go to Billy Squire's greatest hits. Yeah, this one, right. This first album was like it's kind of loaded. Leanna Brennan all the way from the UK.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this song was this, this. So back in the day, back in the day and I don't know it's, it's kind of a prove me wrong. But if you a prove me wrong. But if you bought an album and it had four good songs on it and say there was 11 tracks, if you had four good songs, that was a good album Because you got four really good songs. Then you got some middle-of-the-road songs, then you got the throwaway songs, but pretty much on average that's what you got out of these albums.
Speaker 3:And thank God for the invention of cassettes, because that's when you could fast forward through those things and even technology back then. So remember, when cassette players first came out, you would have to hit it, excuse me. You'd hit stop and then play. I just caught a comment that Richie Farina said he never did that drinking and driving thing. Not Richie, no, no, no, no. Of course he never did that. He was a good boy. Richie was a good boy.
Speaker 3:In your car you would hit that fast forward, you would hit that stop. You'd hit the fast forward, you'd hit the stop. Then you'd have to hit rewind to get right to the beginning of the song. And then technology came in and I think we underappreciated what we had at the time when you had your stereo cassette player in your car with your whatever. You had your block punk speakers, like I had, or you had your jensen coaxials or jensen triaxles or whatever the speakers of the day were back then and you come out with like the kenwood stereo, car stereo with cassette player and you'd hit fast forward and it would stop on the next song, like you're like oh geez Like.
Speaker 3:I think we did not give that enough respect for that back in the day, did not give that enough respect Because we were young and dumb and drunk and, you know, a little out of control. But so what else did Billy Squire? I didn't mean that this this is the beauty of this new format, it can just go in any direction. I I, I'm going to do something with an article in a little while, but uh, let's keep getting into some, uh, some Billy Squire. So again, I think Billy Squire is one of those, one of those artists where we heard him so much, we saw him so much, we thought you know, and then when it goes away you kind of forget. This happened to me with Depeche Mode.
Speaker 3:So, back in, where was I? I was stationed in Southern California at March Air Force Base, and a bunch of us got tickets to go see Depeche Mode at an amphitheater somewhere in Southern California around us and it was let me stop that. And so we get to the concert and you know we're up on the hill and what's funny is so you couldn't really do drugs when you're in the Air Force. It's really not acceptable behavior Not that it was acceptable in civilian life, but it's definitely unacceptable in the military. So somehow I ended up with a little bottle of that amyl nitrate or locker room, whatever you call it instant rush, holy shit. Amyl nitrate or locker room, whatever you call it, instant rush, holy shit. So you know, you go see tepeche mode and you and you're doing that, you're hitting and everyone's give me a hit, give me a hit and we're all doing the liquid rush.
Speaker 3:And it was. It was kind of trippy, it was not healthy. I can tell you that it's not healthy for your brain or your blood pressure or anything. But well, you know, again young and dumb. So I'm at the uh, we're at the depeche mode concert and it was like, oh shit, they sang that song too. Oh shit, I forgot about that song. Oh shit, they did this one too, and you know, it's just one of those things you take for granted and then when you see it and you hear it, like, oh wow, that you know they are. That was the first time I'd seen them, so live, and I've seen them five times, since it's one of the only bands I'll see multiple times. But I think, think, billy Squire is kind of that thing, so we can go into. What about this one? Right, you already know the song just from the beginning of it. He had great intros, his producer, they knew how to draw you in immediately. Good intros will do that. So this one.
Speaker 2:Right Catchy.
Speaker 3:Catchy. Right Now I'm getting copyright violations on my YouTube channel for this. I say this every week this is not my music. I don't own this music. I don't claim this music. I'm using fair use. I hope he profits off this. You can monetize this video if you want. I'm not. And uh, yeah, give billy some money. Give billy some money. You know the thing? Uh, I don't know if you knew this, but the way artists get paid, or that's how artists get paid on streaming is that is a whole episode in itself or half an episode. It's really not fair.
Speaker 3:But listen, they're getting paid and that's their business, but evidently they don't get paid until. Let me move my mic up, my new mic. I love this microphone. This is, yeah, what the hell? I don't like the microphone stand on the arm.
Speaker 3:Uh, they don't get paid until the first like 30 seconds of the song has to has to be played. The first 30 seconds of the song has to be played, which is why you don't get these long intros anymore in songs. We used to get these long 35, 40 second intros before anyone would sing, or you know great songs, let me turn this down, hold on. But yeah, they don't. Uh, they don't get paid until the first 30 seconds are played. Because if you think about that, it makes sense. It makes sense because then you just get a bot to play the song all the time, play songs all the time over and over and play like five, 10 seconds and cut it and do it again and they just keeps generating revenue. But 30 seconds? How many people listen to a song for 30 seconds? This generation doesn't this instant gratification. They don't want to wait 30 seconds.
Speaker 3:That happened in my house recently. We're watching YouTube. I don't know what we were watching. I love watching, like the nerd, the pop culture channels and you know commercials popping because I'm not going to pay for commercial, free YouTube. And it said, you know the commercial pops on and then the time is up in the top right-hand corner and it says we are a minute, like the commercial is going to be a minute, and my and my daughter, amanda, goes a minute. Oh, that said everything. That said everything. I said, you know, like like the old guy, like the old guy, I said, oh, yeah, well, back when I was your age, we had four minutes of commercials. I had to do it. I had to do it, but it was true, it was true. We, we had to sit through commercials. Uh, let me get rid of this. It popped on my screen so okay, so we had. All right, let's. This wasn't one of his bigger songs, but Sounds a little queen-ish, doesn't it? Doesn't it sound a little queen-ish? A?
Speaker 2:little influence. When the daylight comes, you're a runner. In the night it turns you on like a hunter light.
Speaker 3:This was the name of the album too. This is the song. This is the title song from the album Emotions.
Speaker 2:Emotions.
Speaker 3:Right, not a bad song. Billy had a nice little run. Let's see what else is on here. I think this is the this next song. Is this the song that was his downfall? The video he said Backstreet Boys, all right, here we go. Is this the one? There's that one video? When he had he danced around and pranced around and it was like, oh, that was a big mistake. Was it this one? Or was it his Christmas song?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't think it was this one. There was one video that was his downfall, Like they just. Yeah, did I already play this? I think I did. Is this up at the top? My kind of lover Always a night. Is this a hit? No See, you know if his song's good or not by the intro that you hear. That's not one. This wasn't on the radio, but All right.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I've ever heard this song before. She's a Runner is the name of the song. Off Emotions in Motion. I've heard this song. Now I know I've heard this song. That's it. Okay, I remember this song, minor hit. This had a little radio play. She's a runner. Yeah, yeah, it might be better than some of those other songs. I like this song better than Rock Me Tonight. The Rock Me Tonight was a hit.
Speaker 2:This ain't a bad song.
Speaker 3:This is one of those forgotten songs. What do they call them? Like the Hidden Treasures or something like that? Lost Hits, lost Hits of the 80s. Like the hidden treasures or something like that? Lost hits lost hits of the 80s? I'm going to add this to my finally manicured playlist on Spotify. This will be song number 456. I'm going to add it to it right now. I like this song, so you forget this shit. But that's what this show is all about. I'm going to find lost songs. That's what I'm going to try to do. This is still a. It's a Work in motion. Is that the term? It's a work in motion? It's a work in progress. It's a work in progress. Next week, I'm doing a. I'm going to do a I think a Christmas show, I don't know. Unless I do an early the following week for Christmas. We'll see, we'll do. While I'm on this, let's see Lost hits. I'm going to just do it. What the hell? What the fuck?
Speaker 2:We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 3:Okay, All right. So I just pulled up this playlist. Oh, Allison, good night, and I will see you next week, hopefully. All right, I'm going to pull up. So this is one of those songs that Billy Squire had. There was a. It was a little radio play, had a little bit of legs and kind of didn't make it. But I'm going to switch gears here and I'm going to jump over to Wang Chung. Right, Everybody Wang Chung tonight. Dance all days. I think they had one other hit, but, if you ask me, this is their best song and it's on the soundtrack to the movie of the same name. Let's see, this is Wang Chung. Now, Again, if you ask me, Dance All Days is a great song, though that's a great song, but this is my favorite, I think.
Speaker 1:Rock me tonight, every time you go away, I just have to be together. Every time you go away.
Speaker 3:I just have to be smart love together every time you're away. This is very un-Wang Chung, if I do say so In the dark of the day.
Speaker 2:In the dark of the night. Every time I turn the light, I feel that God is not in heaven.
Speaker 3:In the dark of the night. Some of these. Is this a lost? Is this a? I don't know how I just tapped on this, but it's a great song and I don't know what it means, but it's from the 80s.
Speaker 3:Donald Fagan, igiy this is basically Steely Dan, so evidently they're doing a that. They did a documentary on yacht rock and the director and writer they called donald fagan and they said hey, do you want to be on this yacht rock documentary with steely dan? And he literally told them how about you go fuck yourself. Good for him, you don't want to be linked to that shit. I mean, yacht Rock is Yacht Rock, but Steely Dan is Steely Dan. Why would you lower your standards to be on a documentary about Yacht Rock? I don't know. So let's see. I'm going to try something now. I'm going to move over and do something. Let's see how this works out. Let me get rid of this. Let me come over here, all right.
Speaker 3:So we have 10 bands that hated each other with a passion. So we had Oasis. We all know about Oasis. They're getting back together. But Pink Floyd Pink Floyd they hated each other after a while. So it is, as the article says, one of the most seismic bands of all time. Pink Floyd spent most of the years together in one feud or another, but the real rift is formed and ever increasing between Roger Waters and David Gilmour as the two men fought a war on the battlefield of created differences. Waters, a founding member of the band, has often been at loggerheads with Gilmour. I think he's always been a little bit jealous of Gilmour, if you ask me, just a little jealous of him, who joined the group to replace the lead singer, sid Barrett.
Speaker 3:In 1968. The group enjoyed some of the most unprecedented successes in rock music history, delivering record after record that topped the charts and hailed the band as supreme overlords of prog rock. But I think they crossed that a while ago. I don't know if they looked at as prog rock, I'd say they looked at as rock and roll. Still, as the years progressed, the two men were locked in a power struggle. I don't know if they looked at it as prog rock, I'd say they looked at it as rock and roll. Still, as the years progressed, the two men were locked in a power struggle as the creative visions collided and ultimately Roger Waters left the band in 85.
Speaker 3:Some of you might already know this story. When Waters originally withdrew from the group, he immediately locked horns with Gilmore in a bit of legal battle that would last years. He immediately locked horns with Gilmore in a bit of legal battle that would last years. To announce his departure, waters stated EMI and CBS invoking the leaving member clause of his contract and, as the main creative force in the band, he didn't believe Pink Floyd could continue in his absence. How wrong he was. Therefore, in October 86, waters started high court proceedings to formally dissolve Pink Floyd, labeling the group a spent force. Creatively, david Gilmour and Nick Mason opposed this, stating that Pink Floyd was going nowhere and that Waters could declare it dead. While the group was still trying to make music, waters eventually came to an agreement which saw him resign after careful legal considerations in 87.
Speaker 3:Ever since then, the two men at each uh at each end of the pink floyd spectrum have continued to trade veiled insults in insinuations, and they're not private about it. Since then, things have sought uh have soured even further, with the feud taking on a more political stance in recent years. Though they briefly reunited in 2008 for the spectacular music event Live 8, the chances of them ever getting back together again about as likely as Gilmore growing his long hair back. Well, roger Waters' wife got involved and she called Gilmore a. He's a racist, he's a oh she. Just she lambasted him on Twitter at the time. But yeah, when the wife gets involved the shit starts getting really weird.
Speaker 3:Fleetwood Mac hated each other, I think, multiple times. If you ask me, a caveat must be added to this entry, though. Fleetwood Mac were undoubtedly all angry, hateful and hurt by one or two different band members. During their years together, they have just about managed to keep it together over the five decades they've been together. It might be one of the most astonishing feats in music history, and it nearly didn't happen. On several occasions, discounting Peter Green's departure from the group and Stevie Nicks' dalliance with solo work, the soft rock giants have always found a way of keeping their tempestuous timeline moving forward. Of course, the most notable moment in their mutual disdain came during the recording of rumors which saw both the couples in the group Lindsey Buckingham, stevie Nicks, as well as John and Christine McVie acrimoniously split. Not only did that hefty doses, not only did that hefty doses of cocaine add to the increased tension, but each injured party saw fit to pen a song about their perceived offender. I guess there was gloves off there. Somehow the band managed to pull it all off and deliver one of the greatest albums of the 20th century. True, that's a true statement. Stevie Nicks would eventually seek solo stardom, but would return to her rightful home at the front of Fleetwood Mac.
Speaker 3:Buckingham was recently kicked out of the band for breaching their trust and becoming abusive. Unlike most of the bands on our list, fleetwood Mac have managed to keep it together just barely. So that's interesting. So they kicked Lindsey Buckingham officially out of the band. That's kind of what happened to Joey Kramer with Aerosmith. Like I don't know. It was like five years ago. They're like you're done. They officially kicked him out of the band, but you know what? He's always going to be part of Aerosmith. Boomers will always look at Joey Kramer as the drummer from Aerosmith. There's nothing that's ever going to change that. Lindsey Buckingham you can kick him out of the band, but his legacy is already set in stone. He's the guitar player for Fleetwood Mac. He's one of the creative forces in Fleetwood Mac. He was one of the prime reasons that Fleetwood Mac became Fleetwood Mac, because they were just Fleetwood Mac before Nix Buckingham and Nix came on board.
Speaker 3:I who listens to old Fleetwood Mac shit. Who goes back and listens to Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green? You know it does very few people hardcore Fleetwood Mac fans do. But before it was nobody was listening to, like they weren't even close to even close to the heights that they reached with Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks. So it's almost like two totally different lives. The Fleetwood Mac is that two totally, where they just kind of dangled in mediocrity for a little while but then they became superstars. The who Not only was Pete Townsend, the who's guitarist and principal songwriter, recently shamed for his comments on Keith Moon and John Entwessel's passing, but he has always been vocal about his dislike for Roger Daltrey.
Speaker 3:The group always fought with one another, both verbally and physically. Yes, they have had throwdowns. In fact, there is perhaps no band on this list who have shared a much obvious disdain for one another as the who. But when all is said and done, daltrey and Townsend share the most issues. The two powerhouses of the band have always butted heads. The two innately irritate each other, which is remarkable considering how long they've been together in a group and how this certainly is no recent beef. Another example of how, if one does one thing, the other goes out of their way to do. The other was when all right, I read that wrong. The other goes out of their way to do. The other was when Roger Daltrey spoke about his ardent support for the Brexit campaign. See politics, there you go. And Townsend was vocal in his support for Remain to Stay, to Remain to Stay. I mean staying to the Telegraph. I'm a Remainer, he is a Brexiteer. I believe in God, he doesn't. That's a British thing.
Speaker 3:Townsend and Daughtry continue to fight during their live performances, with a particular moment where Roger comes over to me, stands next to me and makes some kind of sloppy smile. This is Townsend talking, which is supposed to communicate some kind of Everly Brothers relationship we have for the audience, which isn't actually there Infuriating the guitarist to the point where he uh recognizes the tune now in his and as his lowest moment on stage. The guitarist continues it's supposed to be an act where I'm supposed to collide, collude like we know each other very well. We look like enemies but we're friends, really kind of look. Often. That will be the moment where I look him in the face and go you fucking wanker, and he gets angry when I do that. Uh, he says amidst the fit of laughter.
Speaker 3:Simon agarfunkel, simon agarfunkel uh, it may seem silly to think that paul simon agarfunkel bickering over pointless band details. The music is so soft and indelibly delicate that any strong words feel misplaced when considering the pair, however, their feud is a searing one and bellies their beautiful music. It all began when, during their time as Tom and Jerry, simon was offered the chance to record two solo singles, something he forgot to tell Garfunkel. Really, you think he really forgot. The real issue was, while Garfunkel had one of the smoothest vocals around, it was Simon who was the group's songwriter and because of that he held all the cards. That is always true. The police is a and because of that he held all the cards. That is always true. The police is a perfect example of that.
Speaker 3:Sting would come to the studio with all the songs written, with all the songs written, and you know it used to piss off stewart copeland and as of recently I watch a lot of stewart copeland like reels on facebook and he is at the point and they're older gentlemen, now they're older guys. He's like I didn't realize. But he sting is fucking, he goes. He's a genius. He was just an asshole. But he's a genius asshole. I just didn't like it at the time. So now they they've reconciled their thing. That was a pretty, pretty big feud. But so, getting back to it, because of that he held all the cards. Quote they both envied the other's place in the team.
Speaker 3:The duo's manager said Paul often thought the audience saw Artie as the star because he was the featured singer and some people probably thought Artie even wrote the song. See, that's yeah. But Artie knew Paul wrote the songs and thus controlled the future of the pair. I don't think he ever got over what happened with Tom and Jerry following the show in 1970. The duo shook hands in the parking lot and never returned to the stage together With Artie. There was no reason to talk about it, said Simon, when he agreed to make carnal knowledge. Something was broken between us. I just wanted to move on. We were finished. Now the ramones. So the ramones had an interesting relationship. So it's punk rock, right? Oh, let me take a blast of my turbo, triple turbo ice coffee, hold on. So the writing was on the wall for the ramones almost as soon as they spray painted their names on it. Great way to put it.
Speaker 3:The forefathers of new york city punk, the quartet, may not have shared any bloodlines, but they fought like brothers. Apart from the tempestuous relationship that undercut everything they did, the real, real dispute was between Joey and Johnny Ramone. The lead guitarist and singer of a group are always meant to have the odd scuffle, but Joey and Johnny were just fundamentally different people. Johnny, the son of a hot drinking construction worker who instilled the republican values into the guitarist at every turn, was miles away from the awkward and liberal Joey. The two perpetually clashed and it wasn't just their political values which were misaligned. Perhaps the worst moment came when Johnny reportedly took Joey's girlfriend from him, which prompted Joey to write the KKK. Took my baby away from him, which prompted Joey to write the KKK, took my baby away.
Speaker 3:I am not a Ramones fan in any way, shape or form. Trust me, I am not. I think they're overrated. I think the Ramones were uh, they, they, they had, they had the look, they had the fast. You know two minute songs. They're not a lot of talent, but they're in the right place at the right time, doing the right thing, and they became bigger than their talent deserved. That's how I say it. Uh, for whatever reason, plus the whole thing with the ramones, you know you think they're all related and oh they're not. And back then, remember, there was no internet, so a lot of people didn't realize it until you know later on that oh, they're not brothers. So, but to write, the KKK took my baby away. I got to give that some props right there. That's what that song's about. Joey Amaki had also been involved in a feud that was thankfully buried a few years before Joey's sad death in 2001.
Speaker 3:The Pixies, boston's own the Pixies, you know, alternative band, had a few alternative hits. The Pixies are one of the most underrated bands of all time, which they are More often cited as a searing inspiration. Above being regarded as one of the greatest bands of the alternative rock explosion, the Pixies have often gone under the radar. Another note about the group that it's seemingly surrounded by secrecy is their inner band battles. The two generals of this war, a war which raged on for nearly a decade, was the band's two principal members, kim Deal and Francis Black. The duo always experienced a fraught relationship, but as Deal's songwriting knack began to beckon and demand she be given more time to express herself creatively, the guitarist became despondent, with Black's unrelenting control. In 2004, the two put those differences aside to reunite the Pixies and begin one of their career's more commercially fruitful periods. However, despite the singer claiming they were always friends, now it would appear that the chances of the group ever reuniting with Deal and Black in the band is as far away as it's ever been, with Deal more interested in pursuing her own creative projects.
Speaker 3:Now Kim Deal, you might have her and her sister I'm sure you've probably heard this song. They got together, let me see, and they put one album out and this was their. It was a video. It was a pretty well-received song. But when Kim Deal left the Pixies her, her and her sister, who eventually died of a heroin overdose they looked almost exactly alike too.
Speaker 3:But this song, this is a 90s classic and I know you've heard it if you're listening to the radio. That's a great bass line. That is a great bass line. That's Kim Deal on bass, on bass. I know you. If you were in the 90s, if you were listening to the radio, you heard this song. I'm sorry, it's a great song. That bass line though. I love that bass line. I just want to get to the break and then I'll move on. It's such a catchy tune. Yeah, that's definitely. That's a good jam.
Speaker 3:I'm going to take a look at something here. Hold on, so if I'm looking at my phone and I do this, okay, I'm looking at myself on the phone live. I want to see how this see this is all new how I have it up on the screen and of course, the podcast listeners can't see it, but they can go to the YouTube channel. All right, that looks okay. I'm happy with that for now, and let's get back to the show. So yeah, then you move on to Guns N' Roses. Do I really have to talk about them? No, is there anything that we don't know about? Guns and road is roses. Uh, what the hell?
Speaker 3:Success is usually one of the biggest trap band traps. Bands have to navigate, must navigate during the time together. Even the smallest taste of success can send a band into a frenzy, like dropping a prick of blood into a pool of sharks. But when that success is truly unfathomable, then chances are you're in for a bumpy ride. In the 80s, there was simply no band more successful than Guns N' Roses, which is true. I believe they broke out around 87, maybe 86, end of 86.
Speaker 3:The band eventually broke up due to their uncharted success, substance abuse issues and huge egos that invariably accompany it. One such ego is axl rose, who seemed hell-bent on destroying the band and everyone involved with it. That's what is he straddling? Is he straddling? Was the guitar player he just ditched, like he was the first one to ditch before the shit hit the fan. There's a video, I I think it's uh, it's welcome to the jungle. Maybe or maybe a song after that where someone's holding up a sign says where's izzy? Because he just left, is he's traveling, just left. He never came back to the band. I, that was probably the smartest move out of all of them.
Speaker 3:The singer had become the undoubted king of rock in the 1980s and continued his dominance in the early 90s too, finding himself front and center for most critical moments of the band's history. However, as rose began to see himself as the band's focal point, more and more he began to clash with the other members, most notably the band's guitarist, slash, who, arguably, arguably, it's it's almost like a jagger and richards thing, right, there's mick jagger fans and there's keith richards fans, the smiths, there's morrissey fans and there's johnny marr fans, and you had slash fans and you had Slash fans and Axl Rose fans. And this is what the problem was, uh, an icon in his own right. Slash didn't take kindly to Rose's behavior and left the group with the intention of never returning or working with Rose ever again. Quote it wasn't even me necessarily leaving the band. He told PS Morgan in 2012 quote it was not continuing on with the new band that Axl put together that he was now at the helm of, which was the new Guns N' Roses. They didn't call it that, but that's what he called it. I was given a contract to basically join his new band and it took about 24 hours before I decided I think this is the end of the line. Hours before I decided I think this is the end of the line. Guns N' Roses reunited in 2016 for an unprecedented tour, but have since scuttled back to their respective mansions and seem intent on speaking ever again. Intent on speaking ever again.
Speaker 3:Whoever writes? You know, back in the day, you'd have publishers and you'd have proof readers, and today anybody can just get on and write an article. This is off the subject, but I read these things and, like nobody caught that Nobody catches. There's words missing or they. They miss word, something, I don't know. But on with the show the Beach Boys. Well, I think we all. If you're a music fan and you paid attention, you kind of know that there was, there was. Mike love is just a total douchebag. Mike love is just a douchebag, still is a douchebag.
Speaker 3:Few bands can define the decade of the 60s as succulent. Succulently was succinctly, succinctly jesus, and sweetly as the beach boys. Their iconic surf music rock, surf rock sound set the waves in motion for a cultural revolution. With their album pet sounds, they always confirmed their place in the pop, place in pop music. One man, brian wilson, largely underpinned those successes, as his meticulous style and devotion to creating pop soundscapes that nobody had ever dreamed of before gave the band their point of difference. Amid a swelling of pop groups, wilson was the man behind the music and he stared the Beach Boys down whatever creative street he chose.
Speaker 3:When Wilson's mental health began to suffer amid the growing pressure of being in charge, it was Mike Love who grew disdainful, perhaps upset, at the lack of commercial opportunity Wilson, taking care of himself, offered. It was a difficult spot to be in, and Love seemingly believed that the group could do just fine without Wilson steering the ship. Ever since then, the two factions have been like warring empires, while Love continued to tour with the Beach Boys name even after many of the band's familial members had left and sadly died. Wilson found his own career outside the group. However, it hasn't stopped the two from feuding and they continue to fight their battles in court occasionally. To fight their battles in court occasionally.
Speaker 3:It's a dark part of the Beach Boys' sunny disposition and shows. No matter the music, when money is involved, things will get ugly quickly. So there you go. I left the Libertines out. I don't think people really know who the Libertines are the Libertines. I wasn't a big fan, but I left them out of this whole list. So you've got nine bands that really hated each other. And I didn't talk about oasis because we all know about oasis. If you don't, then you weren't paying attention. Let's see what do we got down at the bottom. Is there anything, uh, worth looking at? What's this? The only front man charlie watts said was better than mcjagger actually working an audience. All right, let's. Let's see what charlie watts said about a better front man than mcjagger.
Speaker 3:A lot has made of mcjagger and keith richards significance. After all, they are the figureheads of the rolling stones, one of the most influential bands of all time, great songwriters and the definitive stereotypical rock stars, however, due to their long list of storied exploits, including hightailing into france as tax exiles and richard snorting his father's ashes, their characters overshadow the many band members that propped them up over the years, including the late drummer charlie watts. The rolling stones could never have reached their towering heights without watts behind the drums in the stock. There's people that will debate that, but I think it's true. If he wasn't a good enough drummer, they would not have kept him.
Speaker 3:In stark contrast to the flamboyant, outlandish personas of the glimmer twins, watts brought a jazz infused sophistication to his playing, providing an intellectually nuanced counterbalance to the band's raw, raw rock and roll energy. His quiet, reserved demeanor was perfectly suited to the man behind the kit, the steady musical anchor every band needs. Eschewing the excess of his bandmates' hedonistic lifestyles, the understated rhythmic genius remained a breath of fresh, ice-cold air through the band's storied career. Watts was an original until the very end. It was never one to be pulled in directions he he didn't want to. Although he attributed his brief dalliance with drugs and alcoholism in the 1980s to a midlife crisis, it's absolutely symbolic of his character that he stayed faithful to his wife, shirley when on the road, brilliantly when the group's vis, when the group visited hugh heft, this playboy Mansion during the 1972 US tour and presumably got up to all kinds of filth, he removed himself from danger and instead took advantage of the sprawling game rooms, as implied by sketching every tour bed he slept on since 1967, which probably allowed him to be in the group for so long, despite not being one for both of hedonistic mania, like most of his bandmates. This is why you could often see him smirking behind the kit when they were in their heyday. He was likely laughing at what was unfolding and how ridiculous others in the band looked.
Speaker 3:Just as Watts was the quietest member of the band and the coolest head, he also was one of the best placed to comment on the nature of the other Rolling Stones Due to his position as the drummer and his naturally reserved character. He was a perennial observer during his time with them. He knew things about them that they didn't even comprehend. In 1994 he gave an enlightening interview at 60 minutes giving his honest opinion on each man's role in the rolling stones. His comments on mick jagger were particularly interesting, despite one punching the front once punching the front man for calling him my drummer. That is a whole story that is. It's hilarious. You can look it up. Uh, jagger tried to get all froggy with him and arrogant and joking with him and he called charlie watts's hotel room. He says where's my drummer? And and he called from his hotel room to charlie watts. Charlie watts got up, got dressed, went downstairs to mick jagger's room, knocked on the door. Mick jagger opened the door and charlie watts proceed to punch him square in the face and said I'm not your fucking drummer, I'm not your fucking drummer. That never happened again.
Speaker 3:What uh was in no doubt about, what was supreme about Jagger's revered onstage presence and named the only man he thought topped him. Although he knew Jagger was the best, watts believed James Brown outdid him when he was in his pump with his electric aerobic moves going a step further than Jagger's. You know what? I never put that together, like I never. If you were to say who's a better front man, would it be James Brown or Mick Jagger? Hmm, I never thought of that before. Never thought of that before. Never thought of that Interesting what said Mick is just the best front man in the world.
Speaker 3:I mean, that is the nicest possible way. I think he's the best thing on the stage in the world, apart from, probably, james Brown when he was younger. I mean actually working in an audience of 50,000 to 60,000 people, just standing in front of three guitar players or two guitar players and the bass player and singing Mick is the best thing in the world I think it's ever seen. Uh, it's a big call. But Watts was right. Jagger took the lot, took a lot of front, took a lot from Brown when he was forming his famous approach in the early days of the Rolling Stones. His spirited, relentless movement across the stage and expressive delivery were precursors to that of the englishman. He simply wouldn't be the same without the influence of the get up singer. So there you go. That's very interesting. I never, I never looked at that.
Speaker 3:That's something I'm going to ponder and maybe put it out there as a. You make the call on my Facebook page. Who was a better front man, mick Jagger or James Brown in his, in his day, both of them in their prime? Who was a better front man? So let me get off of this, let me get back to my screen. There we go and that's it. That's it for the show. That's it for the show. It's a. It's a new format. I'm going to work it out, I'll get the kinks out. I'm going to get some copyright violations.
Speaker 3:Let me go over here to the chat. Let's bring this up real quick. Let's do an overlay and see where we're at. April says James Brown all day. Yeah, well, I don't think this is can't argue with it, can't argue with it. But all right, everybody, thank you for watching, thank you for listening. If you liked it, share it If you didn't like it. Thanks for listening or watching for an hour and 15 minutes.
Speaker 3:Again, this is a work in progress. We're going to get this thing fine-tuned and if you have any ideas, reach out to me. You can find me on facebook, you can email me at milk grids and turntables, at gmailcom or whatever. But I kind of like it. It's entertaining, engaging music, playing music. It's music podcast and we'll see how far this goes until something else comes up and we'll change it again. But, as my favorite artist, morrissey, he says, doing the show for you, to quote him, the pleasure, the privilege is mine.
Speaker 3:Patty, thank you. I'm glad you liked the show. Patty is a. Patty is a how can I put it? She's like a weather bell for the show. She's a weather. If she likes it, then she'll let me know. If she doesn't, she'll just be nice and say something other than uh said. Thanks, great show. Thanks for all the info and more to come. I'm going to fine tune this in 2025. Uh, maybe next week is a Christmas show. I have some issues. Well, I have issues, but I have some issues with some Christmas songs that I might bring up. I might bring up some. I have issues Lyrics, mostly lyrics. There's some nonsensical lyrics in Christmas songs and maybe I'll expose them next week. So, with that, everybody, I appreciate it. Thank you, and now I have two episodes to upload tomorrow. All right, everybody, have a great weekend.